Pharmacy Focus: Public Health Matters- The Importance of Nonjudgmental Resources Regarding Sexual Health

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Public Health Matters, with your host me, Dr. Christina Madison, also known as the Public Health Pharmacist. We are adding to our collection of amazing podcasts that are part of Pharmacy Times, Pharmacy Focus podcast series. I have another incredible guest with me here today — Amy from The Cupcake Girls. I don't know if you want me to call you, Amy Marie, but I will do whatever you so desire, my dear. I am just thrilled to bring this incredible human on the podcast, because the first time I met you, your presence was just bigger than life, it was so electric. The first thing I did — I turned over to my colleague that I worked with at the Health Department, and I said, 'Who is that?' That is legit, the first thing I said. So, without further ado, if you could just give us a quick intro, and then we can dive into some questions. I love to bring people on that may not necessarily be working in healthcare, but health care adjacent. Obviously, the advocacy work that you do is so phenomenal that I just want to scream it from the rooftops. Amy, tell us a little bit about yourself. And the fact that you work for an organization called The Cupcake Girls, which sounds awesome.

Amy Marie Merrell

Thank you so much for this generous introduction. My name is Amy Marie Merrell, my pronouns are she/her, and I'm the executive director of The Cupcake Girls. The Cupcake Girls is an organization that works in the prevention and aftercare of sex trafficking, which we'll get into during this podcast. I've been working with sex workers and trafficking survivors for the last 17 years and I've been working with The Cupcake Girls now for 11 years. A little bit more about me is that I am obsessed with my dog Luna and my daughter Lux, they are the literal sun and moons of my life, and I'm so thankful for them. I really love living in sunny Las Vegas, it is gorgeous weather out here. We're in monsoon season, it's been pretty, fun. I don't know how you've been with it, but I've been loving it. That's a little bit about me, and I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. It's equal admiration, that's for sure. So excited to talk.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

I love the fact that you are such an incredible example for your daughter, especially with the work that both of us do, because we work with gender-based health, and sexual health, that that could be something that could be very depressing. Ultimately, we choose to look at it differently. We choose to make the best of it and ultimately try to give an opportunity for those that are in the business — in the family, as they like to say, giving them an opportunity to live their fullest in their best lives. With that being said, I know, you said that you've been working with this community for the past 17 years, and then specifically with The Cupcake Girls, for the last 11 years, but within this leadership position — that's actually fairly recent, within the last little bit— I don't know, if you want to talk a little bit about how that evolution happened. I like to hear people like origin stories, because this is not for the faint of heart. I really do think that this is a calling, because not everybody can feel comfortable talking about sex and sexuality. Even just hearing people's stories if they did have a traumatic experience, and having to deal with more trauma informed care, which I tend to utilize just because I work very closely with the LGBTQIA plus community, but not everybody works in that space. If you can maybe just talk a little bit about that, I think that might be beneficial for the audience to hear.

Amy Marie Merrell

I got into this work at a pretty young age, actually, like I said, 17 years. My first experience working with folks in this industry was my first job. In my first job I met a sex worker. I was working at a local bookstore in Oregon, and I had been homeschooled my entire life. Between that and going to church was usually where I met my friends. When I had this job at the bookstore, and I came home to tell my parents, 'Hey, I just met a friend at the bookstore, and they are a sex worker.' At that time, the term sex worker hadn't been coined quite yet, and so I said she works in prostitution. I just remember the color of my dad's face going.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Oh, my goodness, I can imagine, oh my gosh. Talk about white as a sheet, right?

Amy Marie Merrell

I was 16 years old. My dad and I were just talking about this when I went home for a visit a couple weeks ago, and I was like, 'What did that feel like to you?' He said, 'I was just really concerned, I didn't know really what that was going to mean for you and for us moving forward.' What ended up happening was, as I built a relationship with this person, they were telling me their story. They told me their story of being assaulted by two police officers in our town. They had been rescued from trafficking sting, and they ended up experiencing assaults from two police officers in Eugene, Oregon. As they were sharing more of their story, more people shared more of their stories. There were 12 different folks, either sex workers or trafficking survivors that came forward in Eugene, and they said, 'Hey, we're being assaulted by these folks.' The two officers, Roger Magana, and Juan Lara were brought to justice by the way that our carceral system provides justice. They were brought into court, brought into in prison and in they are serving time. But the aftereffects of that action and the aftereffects of everything that they had done, it's rippled into the lives of these people to this day. It causes a lot of fear, can I trust the police department? And unfortunately, this isn't a one-time thing. We're seeing this all over the United States where folks are taken into custody, and unfortunately, they're raped. This is an issue that that we're having all over our country. That was my first experience with sex workers, and then later, I went on to be a flight attendant. When I was a flight attendant, I would see lots of different things all over the United States. This is dating myself a little bit, but it's before the placards were on the inside of bathroom stalls, where you could say 1-800, I need help.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

I know and they're all over now. They're not just in the bathrooms in the in the airplanes, now they're in the bathrooms in the stalls in all the restrooms in the airports, too, because, again, the trafficking is so prevalent. It's one of those things that we just kind of turn a blind eye to.

Amy Marie Merrell

100%. A lot of the flight attendants, we would trade resources, and we would say, 'hey, in this city, there's this domestic violence shelter in this city, there's this shelter for house lessness, in this city, you can call this number if you have somebody on your plane that's experiencing trafficking.' You mentioned calling earlier and that is how I feel about this work in my life, because it just felt like it kept coming in front of my face. It just felt like it wasn't leaving, and even when it was a little bit too much for me to handle, I was understanding that my privilege allowed me to step away from it. That it was important for me to face what was going on in my life and step into that willingly. I made that decision because of a situation happened in 2009. I took a job at Wieden-Kennedy, an advertising agency in Portland, Oregon, after leaving being a flight attendant. I went on a run with my dog after a really, really late night. It was about 4:30 in the morning and I saw a man who's about 6'6 and a woman who was about my height—about 5'0, a shorty. He was holding her with his left arm and punching her in the side with his right arm. I didn't have a cell phone on me because we didn't usually carry cell phones around in 2009. So, I ran to a grocery store that was within running distance, and I asked for the security guard to call 911. The security guard looked over my shoulder at the person who was being assaulted and said, 'Oh, she's a prostitute. They are just going to arrest her anyway.' He kind of chuckled at me turned around and walked away. I yelled some explicit at the security guard, ran to my apartment, to grab my cell phone. I call 911 and ran back to the spot. By the time I got back, the woman was gone. I work very, very hard not to remember her cries to this day. It's important that when these situations are happening, that we do not forget the most marginalized in our communities. I waited for the police to arrive and when they did, I asked them, 'Is this true that you would have arrested this person?' and the police officers let me know that yes, this is what would have happened. I looked at them, and I didn't know very much about the police department at the time, and I said, 'I want to talk to your manager.' The police officers looked at me and they're like, 'We don't have managers lady,' but they ended up introducing me to lieutenants and captains and within two weeks I was sitting across the way from Chief Rosie at the time, who is the Chief of Police of Multnomah County. She gave me the best advice that I've ever gotten when it comes to this work. She told me if you want to make any change, you need to get involved with grassroots nonprofits or work to change legislation. So, I've dedicated my life to doing both. I worked with a group of people to support them in passing a safe harbor law up in Oregon, so that people were able to call the police when they were in situations, where they were being harmed without fear of arrest. I was really, really happy with that, but at the same time, as I was trying to get involved with different anti trafficking organizations. I was realizing that they were helping people in far off lands, they were helping people in Thailand or in China, or in Mexico. I was like trafficking is happening here, who's helping the folks here. There were some sex work organizations that I was able to get in touch with, Coyote Rhode Island, who's been doing work in Rhode Island for quite some time. They didn't really have any volunteer opportunities for me to get into where I was in Portland, Oregon. The more I was connecting with people, the more I was understanding, there's a lot of money going into anti trafficking work, but there's not a lot of folks who are helping people in my city, in my town. I got involved with The Cupcake Girls in February of 2012. The Cupcake Girls had been founded in February 2011, and they were just starting out. I'm starting a year as a volunteer, a year after they had been founded and I jumped in with both feet. The second that I understood the mission — the vision of the work that they were doing, how they were providing absolutely nonjudgmental advocacy to folks that are in the sex industry, as well as folks experiencing sex trafficking. They were partnering people with doctors, and dentists and lawyers, and they were making sure that they had opportunities for pro bono access to these things.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Which is huge. That's so huge. As there's so many, you instance where the health care professional, that may be the only time that that person is not with their trafficker. That may be their only chance to have that opportunity to ask that question, 'do you feel safe, or do you feel like you're in a situation where you're able to leave, if you want to leave, are you being held against your will?' That's it, that's the only time when you're being cared for by a healthcare professional, because anonymity. The reason why we do that is because we want people to be by themselves, and we don't want them to be influenced by another person when they are discussing very intimate health related matters. If that person is actively trafficking you, or if that person is abusing you, you don't want them to be in the room with you, when you're having those kinds of conversations.

Amy Marie Merrell

That is, it. That is, it. And it was really, really impactful to me. As I was growing in the organization, I was a volunteer when I first started out. At first, I was just working 20 to 30 hours a week as a volunteer while I was doing my other job on the side. Then a few years passed, and the director of our Portland, Oregon branch actually stepped away from their position. We were without leadership, and so I stepped into that role as director in our Oregon Southwest Washington branch. I led that team for six years, and then we had more shifts within the organization. As we were in the seats, and as we were within these roles, what kept happening was sex workers and trafficking survivors kept coming to us and saying, 'You know what? I'm needing you to provide me nonjudgmental resources, because you're not — you're providing me resources, but they're not vetted well, you're sending me to people that are religious.' We actually had a pretty big Twitter thing happen in 2020, where folks were saying, you're doing a lot of fundraising, but I'm not seeing a lot of results happening in my life. We were working on that and thinking through that, and leadership really got together, and we were trying to understand, okay, how can we work better? How can we do better for this organization. I think that's really a piece that I want to leave people with, is it's important to be remaining available to be held accountable by the populations that you are attempting to serve. Because at the end of the day, if you're not willing to do that you're in the wrong position. And I say that with a full heart. I think it's really important that we, as leaders, as helpers and healers, that we don't get stuck on our way of doing things. But we really think what is best for the people that we're intending to serve, and we ask them and we listen to them and we make adjustments when necessary. Anyway, I stepped into this role— I was asked to move out to Las Vegas to support our founder and CEO at the time, in their role. Then a little bit after that, the CEO and founder had exited the organization, and the board had asked me to step in as executive director of the organization. As soon as I stepped in as Executive Director, we made a lot of big changes that cost the organization quite a bit. We ended up taking a stance on the importance of decriminalizing sex work, the importance of understanding that we need to decriminalize sex work in order to create safety for sex workers and trafficking survivors. That was through the understanding that we need to listen to the people that we're intending to serve. That's been a little tiny bit of my journey and it's been really exciting to be able to be on this journey and learn more and grow more.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

That's the other thing too, I think, a lot of times we talk a lot about how can we show up for each other? How can we show up to be more mindful, to be more present, to be able to impact the population — not just from a dollar standpoint, but from a representation standpoint. How are we able to do that? The clients that we see are either part of the queer community, or they're part of the bipoc community. One of the things that I absolutely adore about you is that — like the first time I met, you were like, 'white women, come on people, like we need to get our shit together.' I was just so taken aback, but I was also like, holy crap this is what we need. We need somebody that is saying the quiet part out loud, we need somebody that is acknowledging that this is not okay. We can't continue on this path, and continue to sit in our privilege, because that's what it, and pretend that we're not also part of the problem, because we're not bringing it up, and we're not talking about it. We're not being realistic about how our choices impact others.

Amy Marie Merrell

That's it. I talk a lot about how it's important that as white women, when we are making that stance, that it's understood, I'm a part of that population. I'm not separating myself from that. I am one of the white women, that is the problem. We need to work on being anti racist, but saying out loud, the quiet part. We need to actively be working to define what's wrong, and then work to defeat it, because you cannot defeat what you are unwilling to define. I talk a lot about the root causes of trafficking are capitalism, colonialism, racism, and the patriarchy. We are not talking about those things. We're not talking about the ways that we need to be dismantling those foundational structures that are literally killing us. They're killing all of us. As we work to define these things, we will be able to defeat them. But if we keep putting band aids on things, and hoping that they'll go away, we're not going to be making any movements.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

We've kind of talked a little bit about your mission and your vision for the organization, but you talked about WHO. I want to talk about NIH, which is National Institutes of Health. They declared sexually transmitted infections, a public health crisis in 2018. It is continuing to be a challenge, and we are now seeing this not only impacting the individual, but also impacting newborn children. Astronomical rates of congenital syphilis, and it just keeps continuing to happen. Now you're seeing concepts like CPAP, which is giving people a medication after a sexual encounter in order to prevent them from getting chlamydia, gonorrhea, or syphilis. We would never even have thought about that even just five years ago. We're pushing HIV prevention as well. I'm just curious — obviously, your nonjudgmental advocacy work, as well as trauma informed care is getting at the heart of what the needs of sex workers are, and those who are trafficked, but how do you see that aligning with sort of those public health goals? Again, we can do a lot to help them with housing and food and all of those things, but we also have to worry about their health. If they are engaging in sex work, how is that contributing potentially, if we're not getting them the protection that they need to the rate of transmission of all of these infections? I'm just curious what are your thoughts about that alignment? And is that something that you guys actively talk about as part of your like, nonjudgmental service line?

Amy Marie Merrell

100%. At The Cupcake Girls, we understand sex workers work, it's a job like any other job. I want to make sure before we continue in this conversation, there are differences between sex workers and sex trafficked folks. People that are sex trafficked, they are forced, coerced, or manipulated into trafficking. People that are sex workers, they are consenting into this work, they are understanding that it's the job that they are using. It's the job that they are doing. Now, it is a job unlike any other job, but there are similarities sometimes. Do you like doing your job? Yes. Sometimes do not like doing your job? Yes. Sometimes have you had jobs that have been toxic, that have been dangerous that you have needed to get out of, but you've had to stay in order to make sure that you have enough money to get to the next job? Yes. It's important to understand it's a job, and its how people are taking care of themselves and their families. Before we even move forward, it's important to clarify those two items. That being said, our government does not clarify those two items. Because of that what is actively happening is we have a misunderstanding about what is sex work — what is sex trafficking, and we are actively criminalizing both. We're criminalizing sex workers; we're criminalizing sex trafficking survivors. Even in this state, in the state that we're sitting in right now in Nevada, we are actively arresting folks who are being trafficked. This is a problem. It's a huge problem.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

We are re-victimizing; we are re-traumatizing every time that happens. We started off this conversation with the work that you were talking about with the law enforcement, actually being part of the perpetrators not the solution, right — which we know happens way more than it should.

Amy Marie Merrell

Unfortunately, yes. I think as we're having these conversations, we have to set this up well. We have to be talking about who the folks are that we're talking about, because many people don't understand the difference. We've set that stage, we both have an understanding, there we go. Now, the next piece is when we're criminalizing something, we make it unsafe— period, when we're criminalizing something, we make it unsafe. I'm going to tell you why that is. People do not have access to the care that they need and that they deserve, either by implicit or explicit bias. I'm going to tell you what that looks like. You talked about how health care professionals, they often are needing to have a quiet space where they can talk to somebody about their health. What if your healthcare professional, in the past has raped you because they recognized you from a previous porn you were in, and they considered your presence to be conditional consent? What about your health care professional then? Because that's the story that I hear constantly from my program participants.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

I just want to like highlight the fact that you said program participants. That's also a very intentional language that you're using, because of the potential for stigmatization. I just want to recognize that and affirm that because I do think that that's really important. The way that we use language and the way that we communicate about things, impacts whether or not people are going to take your help. I may tell you that I can come in and be your savior, but maybe you don't want me to be your savior, right? How about we ask permission first?

Amy Marie Merrell

And are you in the right seat to be saving anybody? Are you in the right seat to be saving anybody— who are you to be a savior, we are not here to save anybody. We're simply here to address the need, which is people do not have access to safe resources. That's it. We are here to be an access to save resources. We are here to vet those resources, to make sure that people have access to not be raped when they go to the dentist, to not be raped when they take their kids to the pediatrician, to not be raped when they go to a lawyer. We want access to safe services and safe resources. Alongside my story about the health care professionals, when we have program participants that are trying to achieve health care, when they're trying to get access to —which I'm sure we're going to talk about pep and prep and getting access to checking to make sure that they don't have gonorrhea, that to make sure that they don't have syphilis to make sure they don't have chlamydia. In between their client interactions and to be able to access health care if they do have those things. If you're scared to go to a doctor because you need to go frequently, due to the line of work you do that the doctor is going to out you as a sex worker and potentially call the police on you, which happens all the time — will you go to that health care professional? Absolutely not. US criminalizing sex work is actively killing people. It is that, that needs to change. That's something that I talk about all the time. Thankfully, The Cupcake Girls has access to safe and healthy resources, much like yourself, where we're able to give people access to be checking themselves to make sure that they're free of disease, to make sure that they're free of virus before they go on to the next person and have their next client. But when we are criminalizing this— not only are we making healthcare access really, really hard to come by, but we're also making safe clients for our participants to access hard to come by. Because when we're criminalizing something, what happens?

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

It goes underground. It doesn't go away. It just goes in the black market, and it becomes more dangerous.

Amy Marie Merrell

That's it. Who are the main people who are being arrested for sex work? Who are the main people who are being pimped? Who are being trafficked? Indigenous women and black women. And why is that? Racism. We talk to judges all the time that are telling us it's an issue where people are pimping out black women and indigenous women because they know they will receive a lighter sentence rather than if they were to pimp out a white woman. I am not saying, and I did not say that white women are not also survivors of trafficking or people that are being trafficked. I want to be clear about that, because a lot of the time when I talk about race and racial bias, a lot of white women will come up and they'll say, but I'm also in this situation. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the percentage of people that are black, and that are indigenous are being trafficked at a ridiculous rate. It's something that we're not talking about, we don't want to talk about it, it makes us uncomfortable, but we cannot defeat what we are unwilling to define. It's important that we talk about racial bias in our systems, in our legal systems, in our prison industrial complex, in our healthcare complexes, and in the nonprofit industrial complex — which I'm a part of. It's important that we talk about these biases so that we can crush them.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Obviously, you're a fierce advocate for gender-based health and gender based rights. But as a pharmacist and a healthcare professional, what are things that you would tell us that we can do to inform ourselves to make us a better resource for your program participants? If we were in a situation where we were able to provide them with services?

Amy Marie Merrell

I think one of the main things is when folks are coming to you for assistance within gynecological health, sexual health, not judging and not asking too many questions is your best bet. You want to stay away from or stray away from any implicit or explicit bias, you are here to do no harm. That is why you're here. You need to remember that this story of the participant or the client, or the patient who's sitting in front of you — whatever term you use, their life is in their hands. You are simply the conduit for them to be able to receive a safe resource. That is, it. It's important that you listen to the people that are sitting in front of you, and really check yourself to make sure that you are not perpetuating bias onto them, intentionally or unintentionally. That looks like reading a lot of books. There are many, many books about sex, sexual health, sexual freedom, reproductive rights. Also, being an advocate for abortion services is really, really important. When we're talking about the ways that people get trapped in these trafficking situations. Almost always we're looking at pimps that are trying to get the people that they're trafficking pregnant. We need to make sure that folks have access to safe abortions. The Cupcake Girls currently hands out, Julie, which is an abortion pill. We will give to people absolutely free of charge at our free store, it is always available. We'll give people as many as they need and is no questions asked. It's important that we're fierce advocates for abortion health. It's also important that we're fierce advocates for HIV prevention. We need to be talking about PET, we need to be talking about PrEP. We need to be making sure that people know the difference. We have a lot of people as you're mentioning in the LGBTQIA plus community that may have gone through gender affirming services. So, if you were born female, you're going to be taking different HIV prevention tools than if you're born male and we need to be talking about that. Giving people all of the access, to all of their health care, and not gatekeeping the health care. And not assuming that we are the savior but understanding that we are the conduit to resources. We all need to be looking at each other as human. And we all need to be understanding that each of us as individuals, are the best people to decide for our own bodies, what we need to be doing with our own bodies and our own situations. I would not ever say 'Christina, I know the best thing for you and your health and mental health. Here's the plan for your life. Go you got this?' And why would I never do that? It wouldn't work.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Because you have a different lived experience than I do. You can empathize with people, but I really dislike the term live a life in someone else's shoes. I dislike that, because I don't know what it's like to live a day in your life.I should never assume any part of that. But what I can do is tell you that I woke up black today, and I know that discrimination is real. I don't have the same lived experience as a gay male, I don't have the same lived experience as a trans woman, but I know what it's like to be discriminated against. I know what it's like to experience stigma and racism and discrimination.I can at least bring that to the table, and lead with compassion and care, my gritty and integrity, but without putting my myself on you. That's not what I'm here for. I'm not here to judge you, I'm not here to scrutinize your choices. That's not what I'm here for, what I'm here for is to provide you with safe access to care. I really liked this simplification of that. Because when you start seeing people regardless of whether or not you agree with someone's choices, that doesn't mean that they're undeserving of your care and compassion. That's the other thing too, regardless of whether or not you personally would seek abortion care, that doesn't mean that you should deny abortion care to someone. Whether or not you think that having multiple partners, or engaging in sex work is something that you would personally do, does it mean that you should tell someone else that they can't do it? Because that's their own life? That's their own lived experience, and that's their choice. You need to respect their choice without judging their choice.

Amy Marie Merrell

100%. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Well, I appreciate that. I know we are coming to the end of our interview. This was so wonderful; I appreciate you so much on so many levels. Question that I often ask my guests, just because we are all works in progress, and we've all gotten to certain places in our lives. This is a calling, and I always say — you never know who needs to hear what you have to say. You're always in the right place at the right time, so always speak up, always say your truth and be intentional because you never know who's listening. With that being said, if you were able to give advice to your younger self, what would it be and why?

Amy Marie Merrell

If I were to give advice to my younger self, I would tell her to take a minute and really think about what nonjudgement really means. I think for a really, long time, even in my work at The Cupcake Girls, and as an organization, too, I think we had an idea of what that meant and what that looks like. But I wish I would have sat a little bit more and listen to a little bit more. And really took stock of my own biases, whether implicit or explicit. I wish I would have done a little bit more work. I wish I would have moved a little bit slower and listened a little bit more. I think that's what I would tell me.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Yeah, and how frickin kick butt awesome you are right now.

Amy Marie Merrell

I mean, that's definitely a piece too. I think that as you know women in our society, we are often told about all the things that we're not. I probably would have sat myself down and say something like, 'You are worthy. You are important your life. You're enough.' Probably would have done a lot of that too. Definitely focusing on that bias, I think is so important.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Just to let people know, where can they find you? Where can your organization, if people want to find out what's going on? I know you guys have some exciting things that are going to be announced pretty soon. I would love to get some of that information in the show notes if we want to close out with that.

Amy Marie Merrell

Absolutely. So please reach out to us www.thecupcakegirls.org. You'll find a lot of information about who we are and what we do on our website, as well as links to support if you're needing those. You can also find us on TikTok, X, and Instagram. Our handle is @cupcakegirls.org.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Amy. Again, you're an incredible human being thank you so much for the work that you're doing. I hope that our individuals who are listening to this or viewing this episode, take away the fact that we can just all do better to be able to provide culturally competent and compassionate care to everyone that's judgment free. When we think about why we went into health care, it's to do no harm. Again, thank you so much, and I look forward to continuing to work with you. I am just so appreciative of the advocacy work you do, thank you so much. Again, you are strong, you are wonderful, you are capable, you are enough. And if anybody else needed to hear that today, girl you amazing.

Amy Marie Merrell

I love it.

Christina M. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP

Again, my name is Dr. Christina Madison, also known as the Public Health Pharmacist, I am your host, and remember public health matters.