Public Health Matters Video: Healthcare Advocate Summit Emphasizes Advocates Have a Voice in Creating Solutions

In this episode, host Dr. Christina Madison interviews the co-CEOs of Healthcare Advocate Summit Melissa Paige, BPHM, CPhT, MTM, president of National Association of Medication Access & Patient Advocacy (NAMAPA), and Elizabeth Johnson, CEO of MedicoCX, and president and co-founder of NAMAPA on Healthcare Advocate Summit and its mission.

Key Topics Discussed

Paige and Johnson discuss their career journeys and how the Healthcare Advocate Summit was founded.
Medication access is a complex issue with various challenges, including high drug prices and confusing processes, and health care workers play a crucial role in helping patients navigate the medication access process.
Advocacy and education are essential for improving medication access and patient outcomes.
The Healthcare Advocate Summit is a valuable resource for health care professionals working in patient advocacy, and both Paige and Johnson are working to ensure that it is an accessible resource for all health care workers who want to attend or be involved.

Christina A. Madison, PharmD, FCCP, AAHIVP: Hello everyone, and welcome to another incredible episode of Public Health Matters. I am your host, Dr. Christina Madison, also known as the public health pharmacist. And just a friendly reminder, this is part of the Pharmacy Times Pharmacy Focus podcast series, so I would highly recommend that you follow not only this podcast, but all of the other incredible offerings from this series.

So, before we dive in to our 2 wonderful guests, I just want to recommend that you also follow them online after they introduce themselves, because these 2 ladies are doing some extraordinary work and are the epitome of community advocates. So with that, I will go ahead and let Elizabeth introduce herself first, and then I will turn it over to Melissa.

Elizabeth Johnson: Alright, I'm Elizabeth Johnson—I usually like Melissa to introduce me because she does a great job going over my background more than I do—but Melissa and I've been partners for a couple years now on a couple different endeavors, but by training, I'm a nurse, and I started out in the hospital and then transitioned to private practice, where I've spent the majority of my 14 year career, and I've done everything from the clinical side to ops administration, and finance, and have really kind of worked my way through multiple different lines of business in health care, as well as, you know, the patient advocacy side of things. I try to blend every bit that I possibly can together, so not only do I work with Melissa on the Healthcare Advocate Summit, I also am a co-founder of a nonprofit organization with her, and we work towards medication access and patient advocacy to help patients access medication and really to help health care workers understand medication access themselves, because the process may be the process, but it's pretty confusing what's out there, how to afford things, and what goes on. And I also work with a group of physicians, I'm the CEO of MedicoCX, which I help allergists primarily buy and source specialty medications.

Melissa Paige, BPHM, CPhT, MTM: ...So my name is Melissa Paige, I'd like to start with saying that I am a proud licensed pharmacy technician going through and starting from the whole journey counting by 5s, realizing that there's so many other roles that we can do with this type of license, but [I have] done retail...the mail order pharmacy, and working for a PBM and doing the authorizations, and also military treatment facilities, which is just like retail, but everything's free, so just as crazy and kind of moving through and one of my favorite roles going into health system...and then going throughout there [I] did some field reimbursement, was able to support a rare disease company from a pharmaceutical standpoint. So, my whole time through this journey has been medication access, trying to make sure patients get...it's the same things we hear: right time, right treatment, right price, and...right procurement, that's the one we're adding here...so we can keep adding on there as well.

So where I've landed and supporting now is both the Healthcare Advocate Summit, which is a once a year conference that we host the whole theme community. What is this? It's for advocates, by advocates, and the advocates are those who are in between the physician and the patient, and we all have those roles and we can go down on what makes a good advocate, but I think it's understanding how challenging these things are, and being able to get the patients the help that they need. And there's so many resources out there, and I found all of my besties—I think Elizabeth has, too—[there's] this huge support network of communities and organizations to help patients and it's our obligation to figure this out and work together and make sure that these patients can get the treatments that they need. So I do that, I help run also the nonprofit on medication access, patient advocacy, Elizabeth and I and others on the group, we do a lot of advisory boards, and where we'd like is the sweet spot of those who are doing those programs, those who are in the trenches, they're possibly not office practice managers, or leaders, or C-suite, they are the ones on the phones with the payers, trying to get overturn on denials, copay assistance, all of these buzzwords that we end up hearing. So, I love what I do in supporting and working with Elizabeth and others on the team, and our history of meeting during a time when it was a little bit darker out there on health care during the pandemic. So, it's been great, but it's kind of my background. If it's no, I'll find a yes. I thrive off the word "no," it gives me the adrenaline, and we have found a solution to everything yet. So there's my intro.

Madison: Fantastic. I feel so fortunate that I had the opportunity to work really closely with you during that very challenging time and I know that that was when the Summit was still kind of new, and you guys were unfortunately not able to have the Summit that year, because the country shut down...and I just remember thinking, these people are doing God's work and like we are not able to help them. And so, the fact that I was able to contribute to the guide that you guys put out...you pivoted, and you were so flexible, and I think you really were that resource that people needed at such an important time. And I'm so glad to see that the Summit is thriving and now you guys are coming to my hometown! So, I can't wait for this to happen.

So, diving into questions...before we talk about when the Summit is—so that people who want to attend can attend—let's talk about how the [it] got started, so tell me about the history, tell me how were you able to get all of these fantastic people in one space and just allow for them to do what they do best?

Paige: ...I'll kind of kick this off. As a health care worker going to different conferences, there are so many conferences out there, and they're great, and they have a mission, and great people [are] doing great work and talking about things that we need to change in health care and with legislation, and accumulators, maximizers...these are all the buzzwords I start hearing when I started going to conferences. And I raised my hand and I'm like, "Well, what do I do now? It's here. What do we do?" I've got, like, between 20 and 50 patients with these barriers because of these things that may not see the light of day and [patients may not] be able to wait for that legislation. I worked in every therapeutic area that went through that infusion site, and there really wasn't any answers of what they can do now, and, yeah, there were BandAid processes, or there was a back phoneline that people would give me for their patient assistance program...I did get help in the way that they could give it, but for me...I've got the back line. What about all the other hospitals? What about the private practice, especially, which sometimes they don't get as much love on some of these support system, and I have just been frustrated. I think when you get to that point, it's like, if not you, then who? And if you can't find a solution, you kind of have an obligation to be the solution and to find those people.

And over the course of helping out all these patients, there's field reimbursement manager...I love the support system, I didn't even know it was there, and the people that you find that are thriving in this and who love this, they are so quick to share the best practices that they learned, and that's the type of energy I like to be around. And so, from this event, it was really focused around that, like there is no event that is welcoming and focusing on market access, patient services and the health care workers right bringing the people who are in the offices with no windows in their doors—that was me at the hospital—and the solutions that they're trying to put together, spending a lot of investing a lot of money on that. And so it kind of thrived in somebody introduced me to Elizabeth [and] said, "Hey, you've got to go and talk to this rock star. She understands private practice, independent practices." And so, you get a health system person who understands all of that, and private practice, now it's unstoppable. We can understand each of these areas, and it's kind of like selling vacuums...you get your friends and family that first year, the next year kind of grows, and then the next year [and] every year...I didn't know anybody, it was such a small percentage, and it was so cool, that they didn't even know who was running the event.

Johnson: We were at a happy hour [event], and I go up to a group of girls, and I was like, "Hey, you having fun?" trying to be hospitable and a good host. And they're like, "Who are you?"

...I joined Melissa the first year, I have the proud ability to say I was the first paying sponsor of her first event, but [I] kind of worked my way in and really had the same kind of vision and goals. And so, I credit Melissa for kind of dreaming this up, and also for being the best friend in the world where I [tell her] I have an idea, let's work together on it, I think we should do this. And so, being able to collaborate together to bring you know exactly what she said, right?

We go to hundreds of conferences, and I always hear about what's happening in health care, the predictions of health care, and that's cool—especially when they target things for the C-suite, because I get to see that side of it now—and that's great, except that nothing goes anywhere without the people who are actually doing it. And so, I work mostly on the education side of the conference and look at what topics we're going to speak about...[for example], health literacy. I understand from a patient perspective, health literacy is the buzzword of understanding your care, but there is for health care workers, they got understanding the process.

So how can we teach them? I love motivational speakers, don't get me wrong, but I don't need someone to say, "Let's get over your burnout!" We know we're burnt out, but how can we be less burnt out by a better process? What are you doing that you look so happy in your 40 hours that I don't have in my 50 hours? It becomes a "I'll tell you how I did it and why I did it," and then we'll become phone a friends so that you can do it too. And so, it's a different angle for a conference and sometimes you get individuals that want to bash the system, that want to say, health care sucks, and it's a money pit and all this...you can be frustrated with the system. That's okay. Frustration brings change, so you channel that frustration into a "get it done" mentality, and then we figure out how to get through it. So, it's kind of a fine line to walk sometimes, because you take that and run with it, but really, I mean, the outcomes have just been phenomenal for us.

Madison: Yeah, I absolutely love that. It's this whole thought process, "if not now, when, [and] if not you, who?" And I really love that you guys were like, "Hey, you know this problem over here, this one that we keep talking about...maybe we should do something about it," and stop acting like we're helpless, and that our hands are tied, and that we have no solutions. And I love that Melissa [had said], [she] hasn't met a "no" that [she] didn't like...

Johnson: That's very scary. Just remember that. I know she doesn't like the word "no" will overcome it, so I have to be cognizant of that when we have conversations.

Madison: ...I just want to acknowledge how incredible that your partnership is from an example of interprofessional team and partnership standpoint. I'm just overwhelmed with joy...it makes me so happy, because I feel like oftentimes we get so siloed in our own little space, and we forget about our physician and our nurse colleagues, and our OTs and our PTs, and all these other people that are part of the health care system that are really doing the exact same thing that we're trying to do, which is get patients the medication and the care that they need. We're all in this same boat, right? And like you said, I feel like health systems are like a big cargo ship too, it doesn't really maneuver well, it's really hard to move, and it's really hard to get them to change, but that's where we come into play, right? If we're all playing nice together and everybody's getting together on the team and is saying the same thing, then we can really do the thing that we want to do, which is to impact and create optimal patient care.

And so, from the medication access standpoint, because when I think about advocacy and public health, where are they really mating up? How are we getting access and equitable access? And I want to know what are your thoughts on how we can improve this and for those who are listening to this episode, where can they start? How do [we] start the conversation? How do [we] move the needle forward when it comes to health equity and specifically, equitable care when it comes to access.

Johnson: I think about what the average American is kind of used to when it comes to medications. If you are lucky enough to have cable television or a streaming service that has commercials, or even getting on YouTube, print magazines...that has medication advertisements in it. There's always a little piece on it that says $0 copay, or pay no more than $25, and you get this little like, quip of "Oh, well, maybe I can afford that." But there's no explanation of how you get that, where you get it, what that means for your insurance, and then when you start talking about underserved populations, do they have the right plans—Medicare, Medicaid assistance, anything like that—so it's really misleading, but it's common, right? That's just what we're used to seeing. And so, when I think of health equity, I think of access to understanding of what that means for the individual person, and I get it, that's tough. Everybody's situation is different.

But in our minds, when I when look at an insurance card or a patient demographic sheet and I see their insurance, I know what I'm doing. That's commercial, that's government, that's this. So, why isn't that a little more bucketed, a little more known out there, and explained a little bit better? Because it almost gives patients a sense of false hope. Pay more, no more than $25, that's great, but how? So, I think when we talk about health equity—and this is kind of a passion piece for me—it goes back to basic understanding and making it more approachable to the average person. I know some special secret, so I don't struggle getting medication, my family members don't struggle getting medication because they have me on speed dial. But the average person, when they go into a pharmacy or they see their doctor, they don't have that same privilege that I've gotten through learning through this system. And it's unfair, I can't expect a pharmacist to give every patient a copay assistance talk. There's just no way possible, right? That is a lot to put on them, so we can do a better job explaining the basic parts of health care.

Paige: And upstream too, right? We want to get so far upstream that this patient is hearing the same message the people all the way to the retail windows as well. But I agree with you, and especially when you talk about access, and we can all agree we're going to do journey and access....it's from transportation, it's from all of these other things, and working and supporting in rare disease, that was our biggest challenge. How are we going to get people in clinical trials when they can't even get there, or they don't have a way to have a handicap van that can take them that's breaking down...we're not going to move needles in these spaces if we don't have this access, everything from retail medications to being able to go to a clinic...I'm going to talk about the charity care that is available at these hospital systems, that these patients don't even go and so that's why they don't even go and get care. They don't know what 340B is, I didn't know what that was, and I didn't know for like, 8 years...I didn't understand that.

And so, you don't know what you don't know, and I think it is our job, regardless of where we're at. And even at this conference, our exhibitors, our sponsors are our participants. We all flip around our badges, this is the only way we're going to fix things. You can't lock these certain people out or certain teams out of the discussion, because then you're robbing yourself of solutions that could happe. And so from us, I think that's also another thing that people love. We're not going to make you pay extra to go hang out in the cocktail area or to stay after and meet the "super secret" advocates. No, the advocates need help, and we need as much interaction and being able to play that matchmaker...we prepare the health care workers when they come. Or advocates, a lot of these advocates are now independent, and they're outside of the hospital, and it's like, come with your challenges and what hasn't been working, and let's share it with the people who can help make the change.

And so, I think...we hear all of these buzzwords, and equitable access...and I think at the end of it, a lot of it has to do with just the understanding. And so, how can we make it easier? And we're working on things, and I think everybody's trying to do a great job, but how do you get a new person into this field, or even a patient, and how do they understand what commercial insurance means, or this is not a bill, and they don't understand what that is, but there's a bill floating somewhere, it's probably at the court getting ready to take their house away. But you know, where do we get at and going on letters, we get the letters that says you've got 2 days to respond, and that was 2 weeks ago, because the mail delayed where I was on some of these things. So, it's like, are we trying to help the patients? Is the system made to fail on some of these things, just to say we checked a box, and are we actually helping the patients? Which, we all are patients.

Madison: [That's the idea that] the 2 things that are certain in life [are] death and taxes. So at some point, we're all going to need to access the health care system, whether it's for a minor cold, an injury, it could be a rare disease, a life-threatening disease, it could be, as birthing persons, it could be because you're having a child...the health care system touches everyone, and even if it's preventative care...I think about, just for an example, contraceptive access, right? So right now, the big issue right now is that Opill is going to be on the market OTC, but because of the Affordable Care Act, it's considered preventative care and it's supposed to be no-cost sharing to the patient, but now you have an OTC product that its entire purpose is to now be for purchase, and that now you don't have to go "see the doctor," but now we're giving somebody something that technically should be free, and we're charging them $19.99. And it's like, what if you don't have $19.99? And the whole reason why we wanted it to go OTC in the first place, and why "free the pill"—which has been trying to get this OTC and get all contraceptive OTC for the past 20 years—is because the most vulnerable in our population that need it and need access to it, don't have access. And the reason why they don't have access is because they don't have the financial resources to get it.

What do we do, right? How do we educate without alarming and then how do we how do we inform without weaponizing? ...I feel like that's what's happening. I feel like it's this "secret club" that only the people that have means have access to and like, "Oh, you, you want to get access to this medication at a discounted rate? Well, we can get you that because we know that you know X, Y, and Z people, and those people know how to navigate the system." Or, [another example is] during the COVID-19 pandemic when we would have these clinics in historically marginalized communities, and it was literally all these people who had computers and cars, and none of the people who were supposed to be there...and the whole reason why we were having it there were able to get it because all the appointments were made online, and it assumed that everyone had broadband internet and had access to a computer. How do you overcome that?

Johnson: I think one of the things that we as a major failure point in health care workers, we're not perfect. I understand we had our hero days, days gone by...but I think one thing that we do—even as a society outside of health care, I think this is kind of universal—instead of providing solutions, we complain. We can tell you everything wrong with the system, I can get on LinkedIn and I can write a scathing review about a payer, a pharmacy, a doctor, I can leave reviews, I can go on ZocDoc and downgrade a doctor and say they're not great. It's the power of the keyboard, right? But that doesn't do anything other than, I think, make me look not great, and I think also drive that negative narrative of the bandwagon, right? "Oh, I didn't enjoy that either. Oh, this is the problem."

So instead of having a complaint with a solution, when you come at it just from a negative lens, that's not going to help anybody. It's not going to help the health care worker, it's not going to help the patient, and it's certainly not going to help in a demographic that needs even more assistance to grow and to flourish. And so, I think one thing...no, we can't change the system tomorrow. I can't change the US government to help US health care, but I can say, "Hey, listen, I don't hate the government. I want to work with them. Here's my ideas to fix this," or "Here's what I would like to see happen in my everyday role."

And so I think, for us to even take a great first step, it's people like Melissa and those that come to our Summit where it's like, "Here's my proposed solution, this is what I've done. Here's where I learned from experience." Instead of just a big complaint fest, and then what ultimately happens when you keep complaining, is you drive patients away from health care. And so, those already marginalized then don't go seek care, and we create a much larger public health problem.

Madison: Yeah, absolutely, I can't agree with you more, and I really think that when we think about looking at things through a trauma-informed lens, we have to understand that people are coming to the health care system from very different lived experiences, and when I come and I speak to people, they're looking at me as a person of color, as also somebody who is a health care professional, which is very different than, say, if they were to go to a different colleague, right? And then, they don't have an experience of coming from a single parent household, or a household where maybe they didn't have access to transportation all the time, or...there's so many different things that influence whether or not people want to engage in the health care system.

I actually just learned recently about this study that looked at children who had needle phobias and that that actually led them to be less likely to want to be vaccinated as an adult, because they felt like they'd had trauma associated with getting injections—and specifically vaccinations—as a child. And it's like, how do you overcome that when we can do things like numbing creams and giving sweets or candies and things, and making the health care experience more of a positive experience instead of a punitive experience. And then, that actually leads to them having more healthy interactions with health care professionals later on in life, and then that, in turn, makes them want to tell others to seek medical care, right? That was the other thing that we saw during COVID was that when people had positive interactions with the health care system, they were more likely to tell their family and their friends, and then if they had been vaccinated, that the reason why they were vaccinated was because their family and friends were all vaccinated. So, it was almost like a tribal thing, where people were more likely to engage because everyone in their social circle was too.

So I agree with you. I think that we can definitely do more to make the system less scary, and I think the one of the first things you said when we first started this conversation was talking about health literacy. And that's number one, if you don't know the system is the way it is when you try to navigate it, even as somebody who is a healthcare professional, I still have challenges navigating the health care system as the parent of a neurodivergent child, and also someone who's experienced birth-related trauma. So, even me, I can advocate for myself, but how is that going to happen if you've had zero interactions with the health care system and have no idea how it works?

Paige: ...And you know you were talking about the different accessing the care, do they know about it, do they call their friends...and what came to me, I mean, and that's with anything...I have people calling me like, "Hey, is your health system paying for it before I do it?" We do it for everything. Or before you get a tech solution that you're going to implement, or spend money, or a car, you ask your friends and family. Health care is no different.

Madison: So, we have been kind of speaking around this for the last few minutes, but can you please tell me all of the things about the Healthcare Advocate Summit, and just tell me where, when, how can I sign up? …Tell me all the things.

Paige: So, the event is September 3 through [September] 6 this year, and it will be in Las Vegas—your hometown, [Christina]— at Caesars Palace. And so we will be there, we're expecting about 1000 people, of course, that's being conservative and underestimating, we usually blow through those numbers. But when you're selling sponsorships and stuff, we want to be as honest and truthful as we can, so we always overdeliver.

It will be a mix of main stage education and what we heard last year...and we continue to walk around asking people, is they didn't know which room to go to. There were so many good talks, and they're like, "There's too many good talks, I don't know what to go to!" And I'm like, this is great. That means there's going to be those tailored discussions, right? You had 3 talks that you really wanted to go to, you go to the one that you care most about, so now you got a room full of people who cared about that more than the other sessions, and I think it's that dialogue, and being able to build in that dialogue and that's where most lessons are learned. You had pharma people answering and specialty pharmacies, and this is what works in Alaska, and this is what I've done, and that's where you're going to hear what's working and right, educating without weaponizing. Don't go back and use this as "Oh, they found the loophole." No, it's not a loophole, it's called "this is what we gotta do for patient care" as long as it's compliant within the rules.

And so, it's been fantastic. Last year, we had multiple sessions, lots of speakers, and I'd also like to focus on the speakers. A lot of these events are very focused to people who are higher up in their roles, supporting different brands, [those who] have probably a higher title than the person doing the, [for example,] the entry level work. Our whole event is flipping that around, and I think a lot of people when we end up putting out these topics and the subjects is, they're like, "Is this meant for me? Can I speak about it?" And so, while people are submitting, we are empowering and championing all these health care workers who do something awesome at their health system, helping them understand how to deliver it, and this is who they want to hear from.

And so, we get a lot of people and a lot of submissions, and there's a mix, we got industry insights, we've got health care workers...but people kind of want to hear from their peers of what's working and they feel normal when somebody who is in their same type of role in this space...it's challenging, and they just want to be acknowledged. And so from the speaker standpoint, I'll say, and just the topics, it's been so great seeing all of these different health care workers, and not even just that, it's telling them this is how you put it on your CV, and now you've spoken at a conference, and you can get paid more on fair market value, and this is how you can go and do advisory boards and speaking, and so, we all love our jobs and nobody did this for either Elizabeth or I, and it's like, look, here's your trajectory on how you can still be in your job—because we don't want you to leave your role if you don't want to—[and ]how you can supplement your passions elsewhere, and it starts with just coming to the table and talking. And so, from the standpoint from the conference, it's going to be the mixture of very micro events as well as the large scale, because as you get bigger—we've been to all those conferences that feels like Disneyland, you can't even get through the corridors to where it's at—and I want to make sure that the feelings that we felt the first year, second year, third year, they're leaving with their new friends, and they're reporting back to us on you get great minds together and what projects they're now doing together, and what education series, and how they're helping out their community. And so, when you look at outcomes in what's happening, somebody going home and saying, "That prior off that sat for 6 months, I just got it approved within 24 hours of coming home."

...And so, that the whole conference and us being able to do these things, how do you make it not so long, but long enough? How do you have them come for the education, stay for the networking, the community? And we want everybody to feel welcomed, and as you can tell, I just love talking to everybody and I love a lot of friends, but you know, I'd get to these conferences, I'm like, "Okay, who can I go to dinner with?" Well, everybody's getting comped by their company, and I'm here on my own dime, and I feel kind of out of place. Elizabeth will tell you, I am the friendly one, want to make sure everybody feels okay, Elizabeth is there to help me run things. But Elizabeth, anything you want to add?

Johnson: Yeah, I'm the business side, she's the personal side. So, I know we're co-CEOs in this, but she's brevity and she's the sweet one. But you know, the first year, it was a lot of our close friends that we had made through industry [that attended] and last year, it was so much fun to meet new people. And I still every day learn there are other people like me out there, and they're passionate, and this isn't hustle culture, this isn't just a side project. This is passionate individuals that want to make a real difference and want to not just punch a clock, they want to derive change and satisfaction in other jobs. And so, it's an awesome uplifting group when they get together.

And one of the reasons we do our conference right after Labor Day, one is many people have that ability to travel around then, the rates in the hotels are a lot cheaper, so we're trying to be as cost-conscious for the attendees that are coming. If you're an industry, yes, you have a whole different budget than someone who works—like me—in a private practice or someone in a hospital. So, we try to build this event not just on what you're going to get out of it, but to make it as reasonable for your employer to be like, "Hey, I support you in this," because when your employer says yes to something like this, that can be life changing for you and a reward to employees. That feels good, me learning, me developing, me helping my system. Whatever it is, that feels important, and that's a really big factor too.

Paige: I was just going to add 1 thing because you brought up the health care workers. I never wanted to go into sales, I'm selling every day this, and I love it. And so, I think a good sales person is somebody who is passionate about something, comes off naturally, authentic, and this is what we do. And so, we look at every angle and every lens, we're trying to make sure that sponsors and exhibitors find value. And we will turn you down and say, you don't belong on the floor, you belong in the rooms and the discussion. I want you to continue to come, and we don't want to just take people's money, that isn't going to get that ROI and the value. Then you've got the people who are coming from the health care facilities and independents, and they're letting us know their boss won't give them PTO to come to the conference. They have to pay on their own. So now we're selling to the hospitals on why they should come, helping justify, you see a lot of these letters like [saying] "Hey, here's a letter show your boss." No, we are jumping on the phones with their team, I'm showing them, asking them numbers on how are you treating, are you using copay cards? Are these like actually showing them that we're more than just an event to have a conference, so we're empowering those health care workers that used to be me, that nobody helped me out figure this solution. Now we figured it out. Now we're selling to the hospitals, "This is why you need to send your person, don't just send your top person. I need the person who's on the phone with the payers and filling out applications."

And then, to everybody else, we've got patients...you throw in the word "health care advocate," and you talk about the patient journey, and I've read lots of articles, you can't talk about [it] unless you have the patients there. And so, we're very clear on our mission of what we're trying to do, of support those who are navigating the patient journey alongside the patient. We are all inspired, the patient stories are what drives us, but putting patient stories on stage is important, but we're already engaged. How can we fix this? And so, I think some of those conversations is just on what a health care advocate is. We—Elizabeth and I—have gone through this year after year...sometimes getting beat up on, "you can't use that word, you work in a hospital," or [something else]. And we all are healthcare advocates.

Madison: Absolutely. I'd love to see a board, if you guys could put up a board and people could write what thing that they were able to accomplish since attending last. Kind of how you were saying, how they got that prior auth covered that had been sitting there for 6 months, it'd be so cool to just see what do you plan to get out of the conference, or what have you gotten out of the conference in the past. That would be really cool to see.

Paige: [It’s] like you just saw my notes on what we’re planning on. What makes you an advocate...you'll be the first one to fill it out. But yeah, absolutely. I think bringing...the patients that we help and the health care workers' stories, and I think this year we're really going to drive home on what is a health care advocate, and opening the conference with some type of video or interview, just to set the stage right. Who are the people in the room, who are you going to interact with over the next couple of days? And when you calculate it out—because I calculate out everything—we are stealing thousands of hours of people's lives to come to our event, and if we don't figure out how to make this in a way that's valuable for them...[we're] away from our families, I'm flying my kids to who knows what state so my family can take care of them so we can even be there, like we're taking time away [from people] and time is so valuable. This is a very conference-heavy world, [there are] conferences every week. And so, how can you "out care" some of the other events out there and make sure that they can leave with something and feel inspired?

Madison: Oh my goodness, I could talk to you lovely ladies forever, not to mention the fact that I feel so blessed that I was able to get both of you guys on the same call at the same time, because you are so incredibly busy.

Before we kind of wrap up the conversation, I usually like to ask this question of my guests: If there was something you could tell your younger self, what would it be and why?

Johnson: Oh, this is one of my favorite questions, even to use like an icebreaker at a meeting. But I would certainly tell my younger self—who really thought that she was going to be a doctor and that was how she was going to change lives—having been on the other side now, there's so many other ways to make a difference in a patient's life, and the more creative you are about it, the more outcomes that you have. So, I wished I would have been a doctor, but now, oh, no way.

Paige: Mine's kind of on the same thread...I was supposed to be a pharmacist, that was my end goal, right? You have this trajectory, life happens, and these things...and I've been a pharmacy tech, and I've stayed it, and sometimes I wasn't as vocal about it because I didn't want it to withhold me from conversations or being at certain tables. And now I am so proud that I just stuck to what I wanted to do, my passions in just making sure you're authentically you, and I think with anything, be you. If you don't feel it, listen to your instincts. And I make fun of this, if they always say, "Bring a seat to the table," well, if that doesn't work, bring a table, your own table. I mean, it's been at the point where I think we built our whole building with the table, providing all the other people, and their chairs, and ask them what color and treats they want when they sit there.

Johnson: Melissa didn't give me a chair, by the way, I just sat on the table and said, "I'm here to stay.”

Paige: So, you know, make the difference and find those people, and I think...it is really hard to find genuine people who don't think that somebody is after them in any reason, right? And I want to always empower, there's a huge group out there, let us introduce you to their friends. But you know, for me, if I was to tell my younger self something, it's just keep going, when 1 door shuts, another will open. Or in my case, I brought a lot of dynamite, and I never got caught. So now here I am.

Madison: Okay, so I'm pretty sure that my audience is going to want to find how to follow you, how to connect with you, so please tell the audience where they can connect with you online, social media, websites, all of the things, and we will include all of those links in the show notes.

Paige: Summit has its own page, I'm usually the one replying really funny things and [being] very personable on that page. So, drop something there, and you'll know it's me [based on] the way I respond.

Johnson: Healthcare Advocate Summit has more than just LinkedIn, we have Facebook, we have Twitter, we have Instagram…Melissa [made] a TikTok. I mean, we’re hip, we’re relevant.

Madison: Well, ladies, this has been such an extraordinary conversation. I'm so glad that I've had an opportunity to highlight this incredible Summit that's coming up in September, I look forward to the ability to amplify your message and elevate your incredible voices, and I'm just truly grateful for the work that you're doing. I know that the people that you've helped and will continue to help will benefit from your blood, sweat, and tears, and I'm so glad that you all met each other and are just combining your forces for good.

Madison: All right. Well, this has been another episode of Public Health Matters. Again, I am your host, Dr. Christina Madison, also known as the public health pharmacist. Please continue to follow us and check out the Pharmacy Times Pharmacy Focus podcast series for more episodes. And remember, public health matters.

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